Waste Management Inc. in C&D

Vice President of Construction Solutions James Halter talks one-on-one with Associate Publisher and Editor William Turley about C&D recycling and more at North America’s largest waste company

C&D World: What is your title and is it a new position?
Halter: Vice president of construction solutions for Waste Management. It is a new position within the last 18 months.

C&D World: What does that job entail?
Halter: It is really focused around the voice of our customers. From what we have heard from them, they really want us to understand their industry, their challenges and opportunities. It’s how we differentiate Waste Management from being less of an asset-based company to more about the solutions for our individual customer segments.

C&D World: Does construction solutions means you are in C&D?
Halter: That is a good part of it. Another component is the design phase, working with architects and building owners to understand the intent of what they are trying to build and manage the waste stream throughout the construction process. The C&D portion is certainly part of it, and then it is assisting them on the end design of the operation of the building. If their objective is sustainability for organics or other types of materials once it is occupied, then we help support that process also. It covers pre-design all the way through occupancy.

C&D World: Waste management is probably the largest C&D recycler in the country, if only because of sheer size. How many mixed C&D recycling facilities does it have?
Halter: We have around 30. That’s an interesting question because some portion of all of our facilities manage some portion of C&D recycling as far as materials coming into the gate. They might pull of the C&D wood, the concrete coming in, and other things. But when you define C&D recycling facilities that we could take someone on site and show them a sort line, etc., there are about 30.

C&D World: What percentage of this company is involved in C&D?
Halter: On a revenue basis, it is about $700 million in revenue of $12 billion. For volume, it is more difficult because we do ship some materials directly to other non-WM facilities, such as metal, concrete and asphalt. That will bypass our scales completely.

C&D World: If you are the largest, do you think you have been the best C&D recycler?
Halter: I think you can always do better. One of the things we do have is what I would consider a very robust organic growth group. This group has circled the globe looking for innovations because from an innovation standpoint there are a lot of companies and countries that are more sophisticated and further ahead of the curve than we are. We also have a great engineering group, and we do a great job of processing. But there is always room for continuous improvement.

C&D World: You have said that Waste Management has redirected more toward recycling, and is far more interested in C&D recycling. Is that change in the air?
Halter: Let me make a couple of points. First, in my 20 years in the company we have traditionally been the largest recycler around, especially when you get into municipal recycling, and that would include C&D. So this is not new for us. We have been managing these materials since the inception of the company. But when you look at regulatory changes, customer demand, green building certification, those are market drivers. We are saying we are here to manage the material, now there are external factors outside of us driving this. That is what I said earlier about listening to the customer. The customers are saying now it is more important for them to have the material diverted and recycled, where before the market dynamics, before LEED and state and municipal regulations for landfill diversion and recycling, it wasn’t that important. So you aren’t necessarily going to move into something unless the market is demanding it or looking for it.

C&D World: You are in the corporate headquarters of 30,000 feet. How do you get this down to the street, get those guys out in the field to do this? That is always an issue for a big company to do something like that.
Halter: I don’t think you can make anyone do anything. There is a compelling business case, and we are spending a lot of time looking at a lot of data and information; where the regulatory drivers are, where the opportunities are, where the customers are telling us the demand is. Then it is easier to meet with our leadership at the field level and present to them the case on why this makes good business sense. Also we have to try to time it. In some areas are we behind the curve, and do we need to accelerate it, how do we decide to build, buy, or partner? How do we look at leading indicators, be it next year or three to five years out? Do we build a solution that is not needed for five years, or do we put in an interim solution for our customers knowing there are some drivers that will happen in five years? The real key is understanding the market dynamics and being able to bring that to our field organizations, that what makes good business sense for the market area. As you know, it is different in each geographic area.

C&D World: In your position, you have been studying the C&D recycling industry for a while now. What do you think are the biggest issues facing the industry?
Halter: One issue is what I call the end solution for the material—markets. We are as vulnerable to this problem as anybody. We are good at the logistics part, good at the processing, it is the end markets that are the challenge. What do we do for that? There is not adequate markets or scalability for some of the markets on the back end. Another challenge, quite honestly, is the credibility of the industry, specifically, are the materials actually going to their intended end and beneficial use. That is a real concern about a level playing field and does it meet the intentions of the green building industry, and the regulators who have put into place the requirements that the material they want diverted is actually the proper end use market.

C&D World: What do you think of third-party certification of recycling rates for C&D facilities? Or what is the solution?
Halter: That is one of the things we looked at. When you look at the LEED program, about every other point under the program has either an engineering standard or some other standard that is part of that certification. The recycling credit is, if not the only one, one of a handful of different objectives that really don’t have that clear standard. It is self reported, and there is no other third-party certification. There are a lot of contractors that will take a letterhead from a company, with a signature, that claims a percentage of diversion on it, and that is all they need. They are satisfied with that documentation. We think there should be some other certification. There are already municipalities that certify C&D processing facilities. They are doing that as part of their objectives as a municipality, and put out a list of that they have certified on their own as recycling 50%, 75%, whatever that diversion rate is, and they stamp it as such as a third party.

C&D World: How else do we overcome that?
Halter: I think education is a huge piece of it. I firmly believe that this is a solution that should include all of the stakeholders. When I say stakeholders, when I sit down with a contractor or an architect and hear that the industry needs to do something in a particular location for recycling of their material, and that there really is no solution yet, I would come back and say, instead of the industry on the back end, where you have C&D material, put it in the container, let the waste company deal with it. Instead, we should be educating by sitting down and saying that we are willing to be a part of the solution. We can’t be a solution on the back end, because you have trades, you have architects that are specifying materials, you have the builders, contractors, material manufacturers we are dealing with on closed loop solutions, and we have the regulators looking for solutions. It takes education and it takes working with all of the stakeholders.

C&D World: You mentioned markets earlier. How can Waste Management help in developing markets?
Halter: One of the things we can bring is scalability. That is a real challenge within the industry. We know there are great things that being performed by entrepreneurs globally. But some of them can’t get the attention, or can’t make it scalable. We think with our footprint we can help bring some of these solutions and the scalability to make them more economically feasible. A lot of this is economic feasibility. People want to do the right thing, but then you hear from a customer if it is going to cost me more, how much more? What we are getting pressure on is people don’t want to pay any more but they want the environmental solution. The onus on us is to bring the scalability and the economic feasibility to the marketplace.

C&D World: Let’s talk about a few specific materials. Asphalt shingles is something your company has looked at thoroughly, have a little system of your own. What is the future there?
Halter: Can’t go into too much specifics, but the interesting thing I have seen, the traditional shingle recycling process is to put the end product back into a hot mix plant. There are other applications and innovation going on that we think there is a better end use for that. We are looking at different end products for the shingle product. It is very exciting. There is a traditional route. A lot of this is a relatively mature industry. So we either jump in on the mature side, or we can continue to push the envelope on looking for innovation and looking for new uses of the material.

C&D World: Drywall. Your company has been looking at national programs to handle this most difficult material to recycle in the C&D waste stream. What is the future?
Halter: It is a difficult material, and it can be a health and safety, and environmental issue for us from a hydrogen sulfide perspective. We are very cautious about the management of it in the landfill. So we are very interested in the material from a couple of different perspectives. One is, it is a health and safety issue for us at the facilities. Second is finding an end use for it. We are working with the industry. We have been approached by a couple of drywall companies that are interested in some kind of closed loop solution. They realize that for new drywall being installed, 15% to 20% of it is waste. So how do you manage that? It becomes almost like a chain of custody. If a company that is manufacturing and distributing drywall, and it wants the waste back into its system, it should be very concerned about contamination from inferior drywall from abroad. So you would want see to it that it is manufactured it here, it is distributed here, it was installed here, and that material I originally manufactured gets back to my manufacturing facility.

C&D World: So the one company would only take back what it made, would not take back its competitors’ material in?
Halter: Unless there is some sort of certification on that. You have to crawl, then walk, before you run. The discussions we have had is that everyone is very concerned about contamination. If a drywall company can be responsible and get back what it is manufacturing, it will start there. If you can do that, then as an industry you may move forward. It’s like glass now. There are companies that aren’t worried that they get their own glass back, and there is a market for it. When you look at drywall, it is in its infancy and if the best we can do right now is work on a closed loop solution, or work with some sort of innovation, it is a start. Even if we can come up with a solution within a market area where the waste is, such as a new product out of gypsum that maybe someone has not thought of before, because agricultural amendment does not work in all climates and locations. So they said, even if it doesn’t get into our facilities, if there is some beneficial reuse of the material, that is great. If you are interested in greenhouse gas, carbon emissions, and in fuel and expense, that is a big issue. There is a need for a hub and spoke system for that material.

C&D World: That would give an advantage to a national company?
Halter: It could.

C&D World: What do see Waste Management’s role in the future of the C&D recycling industry?
Halter: I think our future is bringing innovation in. There is a need for better solutions for the end products. We need to continue to push the envelope on that. Education is going to be a key piece, whether it is property owners, development companies, contractors, regulatory agencies, material manufacturers, it is in that space because we touch all of that material and we have for years. We need to bring leadership and the solutions to the marketplace.

C&D World: Your company has become more active in the CMRA. What is the WM role there?
Halter: This goes back on how this conversation began, with having someone focused on our customers in the construction industry, along with a number of industries—we have specific people focused on manufacturing and industrial, food and retail, and commercial property, etc. If you really want to understand the drivers, the challenges, the opportunities with your customers, you have to be engaged with those associations that represent those factions, whether it is the AGC, the CMRA or the USGBC. I think all of those are very important. They also give us another view of what is happening, rather than just an internal understanding of what we think is going on in the marketplace. It helps us understand from an external perspective what those challenges are and what those needs are. There is a lot expertise, a lot of knowledgeable and experienced people out there that it would be an injustice to our customers and the company not to engage with an organization such as the CMRA.

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